Showing posts with label Kings of War. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Kings of War. Show all posts

Thursday, 16 January 2020

Kings of War 3rd Edition (The corporate edition)

Kings of War 3rd Edition came out last year, shortly followed by its companion book Uncharted Empires.   I thought I would put down some of my initial thoughts on the new edition of the game, focusing on the points that are important to me (background, how does it effect my army).

The basic stuff:

The main rulebook is hardback and is just short of 400 pages long. It is split into three main sections.  The rules are the first 63 pages, the background takes you up to page 222, with the last section of the book being devoted to army lists for all the armies that Mantic currently manufacture miniatures for.

First of all the main rules.  This isn't so much a third edition as a tidy up of the rules, incorporating all the things that the rules committee have tried to clean up in their annual rules pack Clash of Kings, but couldn't as it would have made to big a change to the core of the rules.   Changes include fixing of the height rules to clear up the cover and line of site rules.

You now get a bonus to damage when charging of hills and some cleaning up of the charge rules. 

 The main change that I can seems to be the inclusion of a disengage rule.  In 2nd edition when you fought a unit but failed to rout it, you had to retreat an inch, and this caused some "discussion" as it could be interpreted in several ways, with some of the hard core tournament players using it to their advantage.   Now you stay in base contact, but if you start the turn engaged to an enemy on one side you can elect to carry out a free disengage before you issue the orders to your unit.   

Those are basically the main changes.

There changes to spells, such as Bane Chant no longer working on missile attacks, and certain spells now getting minuses to hit against units in cover.

Some magic items were also removed, some made only usable by individuals and some new ones added. Every magic item that effected shooting was removed from the game.

Individuals were changed slightly as well. All individuals are classed as yielding unless they have the 'mighty' rule. The yielding rule stops you from sticking your 50 point flag bearer in front of the enemy unit so that he has to charge him, leaving the unit exposed to be counter charged next turn by the horde of infantry cowering behind the hapless flag waver.

Breath Weapons were removed from the game entirely,  and are now simply shooting attacks, subject to the same limitations 

A couple of new troop types were introduced.   Previously infantry either came on 20mm or 25mm bases, but now a new class has been introduced.  Infantry are now all on 20mm bases, while the new heavy infantry are all on 25mm bases.  Titans have been introduced to cover all the especially large monsters that Mantic have been making and are on a 75mm base now.   

Chariots were changes lightly and you now need less models to make a unit and so the footprint has slightly changed.

Those are the rules. Generally keeping the game pretty similar is a good thing.  Some of the changes didn't quite go far enough fro me, and other went too far, but I shall summarise these at the end.

The background section is greatly expanded, and has a lot of detail about the origins of the world and all the different factions that inhabit it.  Its all pretty generic so theres not much to say here.  Orce are warlike, Elves are arrogant and Dwarfs live under the ground in great holds etc etc.  As a rule of thumb the more syllables in your name the more important you are though and the background never uses one word when you could slip in another couple of adjectives. Caverns aren't just dark or deep, but 'deepest, darkest', just to make sure the reader understands how dark and deep the caverns are.

The final section of the book contains the army lists. These are lists for all the armies that Mantic currently make models for, of which there are fourteen.  I cant comment on most of these as I have very limited experience of most of the. I will comment on two though, the elves and the Ogres.

The elves because there are a few things that stood out to me, and the ogres as I have fought more ogres than anything else so was able to make some sort of minor comparison between the editions.

The main changes to he elves were the reduction in power of he shooting infantry and the inclusion of palace guard hordes, both of which are problematic. These are problematic as it creates a massive disconnect from the fluff and makes the internal balance of the army very poor.  This is a problem fluff wise as the background of the elves makes a massive thing of elven skill with the spear and the bow.   It states that the elven ability with the bow is almost supernatural, but then they reduced the shooting ability of elves to 5+, which is pretty much the same as everyone else.  Not terribly supernatural then.   The Palace Guard hordes are now so good, and similar in cost to the mighty horde of spearmen (remember, elves favour the spear above all else) that basically every elven list will squeeze as many of the rare, elite palace guards as they can, leaving he other elven troops aside. The elves must be a very rich race if they need so many palace guards, lol.  I know that elven gunlines were a problem, but removing all the magic items and spell that benefit shooting and making the archers irregular probably would have been enough, now elven shooting is a rarity, apart from Silverbreeze cavalry who for some reason can shoot more accurately from the back of a moving horse than a static elven archer.

Ogres got a light touch and most of their stuff appeared to be unchanged apart from some new units and heroes. One thing I did notice is that Seige breakers got a lot better.  Seige Breakers were ogres carrying massive pavise shields and huge clubs. They had excellent defence to the front, and hit like a ton of bricks. The pay-off to this was that they were slower than normal ogres and they're base armour was slightly lower when attacked in the flank or rear, which made sense. Now their speed and armour have been raised to match that of the the other ogres, meaning that you don't really have any reason to take normal ogre braves unless you were really wanting to save a few points. 

Unchartered Empire is Mantic's expansion, containing a number of additional army list consisting mainly of the ones created to cash in when GW blew up the Old World and the WHFB players found themselves homeless. There are thirteen lists in this book, most of which are 'theme' lists.  Theme lists are based on one of the lists in the main book, and have access to some units from one or more of the lists from the main book and have some unique units of their own.  

I cannot comment on the most of these so will limit myself to having a look at my main Kings of War list, the Twilight Kin.   

The Twilight Kin had a list and range of miniatures in 1st edition, but these were removed when 2nd dropped as Mantic wasn't happy with the direction of the background.  They did, however introduce a 'get you by' list which everyone used.  The list basically allowed me to use my WHFB Dark Elf army, and had equivalent troops for most entries.

The new theme list has pretty much gutted the old 2nd edition list, making it virtually unrecognisable.  It has removed chariots, dragons, elven cavalry, basic wizards, hydra's, buccaneers and shadows. In return we are able to make use of both Abyssal and Nightstalker units, which are apparently summoned to the battle by the elven wizards.  I shall perhaps right a more detailed description of the list in a future blog post. I have a game coming up on Monday to try out the new edition so will have a better idea.

So how is 3rd edition?   The core rules are pretty much the same and therefore pretty good, although there are still a couple of issues with the rules:

I think the disengage rule is a missed opportunity. It is now entirely possible for a unit to disengage from the unit it is fighting, turn 90 degrees and attack another unit that has exposed a flank, thinking that the nearby enemy unit is occupied.   This is known as a corkscrew and is a rules fudge. I think the fact that you can run across the front of an enemy unit to engage an exposed 3mm of an enemy flank is a real problem with these rules, and while I wont do it personally I know a lot of people that will happily do it.  This leads me into my second point, the game really needs zones of control, which would go a long way to stop a lot of the weird rules contortions.   Whether a unit is in the flank of another unit should also be measured form something else apart from the leader point, as it can also lead to some very odd rules interpretations, where you end up perched on a flank of a unit that you were facing the front of, purely because you were offset slightly.

I think the nerf to shooting went to far. I get that this is a melee based game but basically making shooting hordes pointless was a bad move.  People will just move on to other way of maximising their shooting potential, mainly by spamming wizards.

Not really an rules issue but Mantic really need to drop the obsession with individual models. Kings of War is at its heart an element game, and within 5 minutes of the new rules there were multiple threads on line concerning minimum model count.   Currently a regiment of infantry consist of 20 men, arranged five wide and four deep. This means the units will have a footprint 100mm wide and 80mm deep, which is what really matters for game purposes.  Instead of constantly talking about models and adding up individual models, all they needed to do was state that a regiment of infantry has a footprint of 100 by 80mm and should consist of between 10 and 20 models. Job done.  I don't know why fantasy games have this obsession with individual models, even when the rules make them effectively meaningless.

I still like the core of the game, and think it is excellent, but it has definitely had a shift in how it has been made.  It is done with rules in mind rather than background, and there is a definite disconnect between how some of the armies are described and how they actually operate on the table.  This is a shame and is what happens when the games direction is run by people that seem primarily concerned with tournament style gaming.   There is background here, but it seems secondary to setting up a game that can be played competitively and each army needs to play in a certain way.  I'm not really bothered if two armies play in a very similar way if I like the fluff, and it is justified in the background, but when there is a disconnect then I will start to lose interest. Vanguard, the skirmish game in the same setting has some great narrative scenarios, and this could benefit from the same sort of love. 

So to sum up the rules themselves are still excellent, but the new background and army lists have left me feeling a bit ambivalent about the game. That nay change when I have got a few games under my belt, time will tell.


 
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Tuesday, 13 February 2018

Random Kings of War

Another Monday night and another games of Kings of War.

This week Ian and I opted to use the Clash of Kings 2018 supplement, and also the random cards that were released alongside. We used the 2k points, with my usual Twilight Kin, while Ian brought his Ogres. Ian was hot of a tournament at Common Ground Games so I expected a difficult night.

My list was fairly standard fir, consisting of:

Horde of Crossbows, Peircing 1
2 Regiments of Reaper Guard
2 Bolt Throwers
Regiment of Blade Dancers with Ram of always wound on a 4+
Troop of Blade Dancers
2 Troops of gargoyles.
Regiment of Dark Knights with Maccwars Caterpillar
Horde of Abyssal Riders
Banner bearer with Bloodboil
High Priestess with Inspiring
Minor Noble.

I had ditched the usual spearmen as I find them pretty lackluster, and didn't really expect to be facing any cavalry anyway. For this evening a single unit of Corsairs would be doing double duty as Reaper Guard.

Ian fielded the following:

2 Hordes of Berserker Braves
2 regiments of Berserker Braves
2 Hordes of Braves
1 Giant
2 Mounted Biggits (one with Lightning bolt, one with dragon breath)
1 Boomer Hero with Bloodboil
2 Wizards, one with Griffon Banner.


We used the new random cards, and this entails drawing random objectives for each player, one set of conditions for the game, and 1 stratagem card for each 500 points.


The condition we drew was poor scouting, meaning that the armies only had ot deploy 9" from the center line, rather than the usual 12". useful for Ian's Ogres as he was keen to get stuck in as soon as possible.  

The objective cards each have a major and minor objective on them  and you draw two at the start of the game.  You pick one card to be your major objective and reveal that to your opponent, and select the other card to use as you secondary objective, which is revealed at the start of turn 4.  

My objective were quite good, and worked well with each other. My major objective was to rout the three most expensive units in the Ogre army, with bonuses if I managed to do it in melee. the three most expensive usint were the 2 hordes of Berserker Braves and the giant. My secondary objective was to select the most expensive unit remaining on the board and if I managed to rout that it would be worth an additional 2 victory points. These two objectives had quite good synergy and meant I could concentrate on routing ogres, rather than any positioning shenanigans.

Ian primary objective was to capture the objective in my side of the table, with bonus points for capturing the central objectives, while his secondary objective was about killing as many points of my army as possible while losing as few of his.


My deployment was fairly straight forward, with the Crossbows, flanked by the two regiments of the reaper guard covering the open ground in the center of the board, while I put my faster units on my right flank.  Ian deployed almost his entire army on his left flank, ready to burst through the trees and start routing my Twilight Kin.

Early game and the Ogres advanced quickly, trying to close the ground with my nervous looking troops.  I decided to just get stuck in and advanced straight at my opponent, with my knights charging and doing a lot of damage to the giant, and the Abyssal Riders routing a suicidal Biggit that had approached too close. 

Ian retaliated by routing my knights ad advancing with the rest of his forces. turn two and I got stuck in routing, routing several units, with the Abyssal Riders managing to get two of them, thanks to using the "Unstoppable Charge" Strategem card.

Mid game and the Ogres were starting to look a bit thin on teh ground, with the elves giving a good account of themselves. the Blade Dancers accounted for two ogre regiments, before they themselves were routed, while the lone Elven hero decided to try and take out the badly wounded Giant.  He failed his first attempt, but miraculously the giant fluffed his return attacks, giving him a second chance. Despite some good hits he didn't manage it and was squashed flat fro his lack of performance.




Late game and things started to unravel for the Ogres, withe the crossbows finishing off the giant, and the two units of Reaper Guard routing one of the two remaining Ogre Brave Hordes. The other Ogre Horde had managed to get around my flank and had been tackling my bolt throwers, but by this time I had scored all the victory points I could and was going to comfortably deny the ogres any of their objectives so I wasn't too bothered.  We called it at the end of turn 5 as there weren't enough Ogres left on the board to achieve anything.

Everything went quite well this time round, with my dice all behaving themselves and rolling pretty well. Ian had a pretty poor night, with some atrocious dice rolls.  I managed to get the momentum on my army early on and kept it, which seemed to be the way to succeed at Kings of War.


The different cards were interesting and I quite liked having asymmetrical objectives in the game. The stratagems were also interesting but the only one that made any real difference was the "Unstoppable Charge" one, which allowed me to rout two enemy units in one turn.

I still consider myself a novice at Kings of War, with only about a dozen games under my belt but I am still enjoying the game and think there is a large amount of traction left in it yet, especially with the cards generating random scenarios and the annual refresh from the Clash of Kings book.  I just wish they would get on and sort out the Twilight Kin to a full list so I can see what to paint next.

Thursday, 18 May 2017

A New King

I have had the Kings of War 2nd edition Rules for a few years now, but haven't really done much with them until now.  I think this has largely been due to playing other types of games than mass battle fantasy.
I have been playing a bit of 9th Age recently and have found the game to be ok, but a bit overcomplicated and still needing a lot of work to balance it out.  I decided that it was time to give Kings of war a try, and Andy, the club 9th Age promoter agreed to give it a try with his Empire army.  I loaned him the books and he seemed quite keen to give the game a try.
I used my Dark Elves and Andy opted to use the league of Rhordia list as it provided the closest match to his Empire army.  I just managed to squeeze out a 2000 point army, mostly thanks to the generous use of magic items. In the end I had:
1 Regiment Spears
2 Regiments Buccaneers
1 Regiment Crossbows
1 Regiment Drake knights
1 Regiment Blade Dancers
1 Hydra
2 Bolt Throwers
1 Troop Gargoyles
1 Troop Heralds of Woe
1 mounted Dark Lord
1 Mounted Army Standard
1 Mounted High priestess with Bane Chant.
Andy Brought (from memory):
2 Regiments of House Guard
2 regiments Household Knights
1 Regiment Honour Guard
2 Troops Crossbowmen
1 Horde Dogs of War
1 Halfling Iron Beast
1 Baron
1 Army Standard Bearer
1 Wizard
1 Halfling Master Engineer
1 Battle Shrine

As it was our first game we decided to do the basic Kill! scenario.
The game feels pretty much like 9th Age, with deployment being one unit at a time and then rolling for first turn. Andy won the role off for first turn but opted to go second.
Our forces were spread pretty evenly, but with a definite bias toward the Dark elf left flank, which is where I deployed most of my troops, facing off against the bulk of Andy's infantry. Andy elected to put both units of Knights on his left flank, while the Honour Guard and Iron Beast guarded his right. 

Early game saw us both trying to get to grips with the rules, although after the first turn we pretty much had it down (or so I thought, see below).  There was some exchange of fire, with the Dark Elves inflicting some decent casualties with their war machines and crossbows, but not really enough to break any enemy units.  In return the humans decided to concentrate their fire on the elven crossbows and between their crossbows, the iron beast and the lightning bolts of the  battle shrine managed to shoot the elven crossbows of the table in a couple of turns.


I misjudged a few distances here as well, assuming that humans had a move of 4 inches when it was in fact 5, which casued me to be on the receiving end of some charges I didn't want.  The Dogs of War crossbows charged into one unit of Buccaneers, wiping them out, while a unit if Household Knights managed to get the drop on my Drake Knights, causing some damage.
I also rather recklessly charged the hydra into the Iron beast, inflicted some damage but more importantly exposing the Hydra to a flank charge from the Honour Guard. Charged in the front by the Iron Beast and in the flank by the honour Guard the Hydra was predictably smeared all over the field. I never even got the chance to use any of the Hydra's special abilities.



Mid game and I managed to get some revenge, with the Blade Dancers wiping out the Honour Guard, the Drake Knights destroying both units of Household Knights and one unit of Buccaneers and Gargoyles destroying a unit of Household Guard.



Late game and the Remaining unit of Buccaneers and the Gargoyles managed to kill one unit of crossbows, before the Buccaneers were run over by the Iron Beast.  The Blade Dancers were killed by the Dogs of War and the Dark Elf spears managed to Kill a unit of Household Guard.  My Drake Knights were killed when the human general charged them in the rear as I had forgotten to reform them after destroying the Household Knights.  With that we called it a day as I only had one unit left on the board and it was nearly destroyed, leaving Andy with a solid win.
So our first test of Kings of War went quite well, with Andy saying that, while it lacked the depth of 9th Age and he still preferred that he quite enjoyed the game and would definitely be willing to play it again.  He said that he liked the level in variety in the lists as in 9th Age you can quite often find yourself hemmed into one type of play as nothing else is viable.
As for myself I quite enjoyed the rules, for a few reasons:
  • Unit basing is great, as there is no messing about with frontage etc. to try and squeeze out an advantage.
  • The morale rules are very easy and you don't have to worry about routing/rallying units.
  • Putting together an army is pretty quick.
  • The Game looked good, with some good sized units moving about, and a good number of them as well.
  • It is very easy to pick up the rules, but I thought that there was a lot of things that I could have done differently in the game.
  • At no point in the game did I think that I had no chance of victory, as the way the game is set up you can have troops behave very differently with just a few tweaks to their profiles (although I wasn't really sure what to do about the Iron Beast though!).
  • Despite the extreme nature of IGOUGO in the rules I never felt that I was not involved in the game, and always paid attention, even in my opponents turn.
One thing we forgot was to disorder units after taking damage in combat, although I don't think it would have made a huge amount of difference to the game.
My main misgiving about the rules has always been the extreme way the turn are done, with one player doing nothing in their turn apart from removing units, but in the end it did not bug me as much as I thought it would and adds another element to game as you try and force put your opponent into positions where he cannot inflict too much damage in their turn.
The game felt like a game of Warhammer, with a lot of the same consideration with regards to positioning, unit facing and trying to manoeuvre for the charge but in a much simpler and straight forward way.  Magic was nice and simple and characters on foot play more of a supporting role rather then being powerhouses able to take on whole units.
All in all I was impressed with the game and will try and make it a regular feature of my Monday night games.

Tuesday, 6 October 2015

Kings of War



This week Ian and I finally managed to get a free week and decided to give Kings of War 2nd edition a try.   Ian pre-ordered his direct from Mantic and has had his copy for several weeks now.  O jumped on the Kickstarter for the rulebooks only and have yet to receive anything, so thanks a bunch Mantic.


As it was our first game we opted for 2000 points, straight fight with no terrain as that would give us the best test of the combat system.
As I had not yet received my book I did a basic force using the free lists and then modified it on the night using Ian rulebook.  My force consisted of:

Ax Horde
Ax Horde
Morax Regiment
Morax Regiment
Skulk Troop
Skulk Troop
Gore Riders Regiment
Gore Chariots Regiment
Troll Horde
Kludger on Foot
Kludger on Gore
Flagger on Gore
Wizard on Foot with Heal spell.

Ian’s Ogre force was something like this:

Ogre Legion
Ogre Horde
Ogre Horde
Shooter Regiment
Shooter Regiment
Beserker Regiment
Beserker Regiment
Chariot Regiment
Chariot Regiment
2 Flaggers
1 Chieftan


We deployed pretty much in a straight line opposite each other and advanced.  One unit of my skulks was the first casualty, run over by a unit of Ogre Chariots, and in my turn two the two sided got stuck in properly with engagement breaking out all along the battle lines.   My Ax hordes proved to be no match for the Ogre onslaught, with one horde going down in one turn to the Ogre Legion (how many dice?!), with the second one succumbing to a flank attack late on in the game.  Elsewhere on my right flank the combination of Morax and Chariots succeeded in destroying the Ogre left flank, while the Ogre heavy hitters destroyed my centre.   Late game and the battle had swung with my left flank turning to face the Ogre centre, but the game only lasted 6 turns so we had to call it there, resulting in a draw.   We did a few things wrong I think, and only one person having access to the rules did not help either.


Cant remember the last time I put this many orcs on the table.


My centre about to be swept away, while I make gains on the right

Ian cavalry are stunning. I should have taken a better picture!




The state of play at the end

My initial thoughts on the game were pretty much confirmed by tonight’s effort.  Like the element based style, you can put lots on the table and still finish in an evening quite comfortably but the game is very IGO UGO, which I am not sure I like.   There were a couple of instanced where a unit was destroyed in one round, without actually doing any damage to its attackers at all. Which seems wrong to me.  We will try it again sometime soon, and this time use some terrain and a different scenario. Perhaps I will have a try with my Dark Elves as the two armies on the table tonight were very basic, leaving little room for fancy tactics.  We will definitely play a few more games though as it is better than Warhammer 8th, and we don’t mention Age of Sigmar…

Now is only Mantic would sort themselves out and send me my sodding copy of the rules…..

I am planning on doing an entry on Kickstarter soon, but was waiting for a few things to happen first (Im looking at you Prodos games!!!!!!) but it might be that waiting for that to arrive means I will never get round to it, so I might write it up soon anyway.